Fr. Defining terms at the outset is key to any cogent consideration and yet, many people dive into such discussions midstream, in a manner of speaking, by discussing "giants" without defining that about which they are speaking. Mahaksapatalika (Isaacs Jr.). Fr. But 1 John is actually the book of the New Testament that uses the actual word, ilasterion, atonement, most frequently. Stephen uses historical scholarship to nudge the reader closer to the Orthodox position. but please ask the guy who feels the need to constantly (some episodes he speaks more than De Young!) The Judaism at the time of Christ was entirely centered on the temple, but the temple was destroyed in AD 70. Fr. Fr. Fr. Product details Publisher : Ancient Faith Publishing (October 18, 2021) Language : English Paperback : 160 pages ISBN-10 : 1955890048 ISBN-13 : 978-1955890045 Item Weight : 7.5 ounces Orthodoxy, The Early Church, and Second Temple Judaism (w/ Fr. Stephen Andrew: There you go: the Day of the Covering. But the problemand we already talked about this a bit with Fr. Journal for The Study of The Pseudepigrapha, Online Heidelberg Journal of Religions on the Internet, Corrupting the Image 2: Hybrids, Hades, and the Mt Hermon Connection, Corrupting the Image vol 2: Hybrids, Hades, and the Mt Hermon Connection, Lamhfada: An Online Magazine of Myth and Story. Lets be clear on that. I hear you. Andrew Damick, Michael Landsman, and Ancient Faith Radio, Fr. Its not anti-Semitic. I can understand all that, and thats fun: figuring out all the details, all the systems, all the lore. Stephen: Right, because if he saw him directly, hed die. How do you do that? The Lord of Spirits | Ancient Faith Ministries I know. Fr. Theres like cheering going up across the country now because we mentioned Azazel. Fr. Kuehn, S., Monster. For those of us in the Byzantine rite of the Orthodox Church, which is most Orthodox Christians, this last Sunday was the Sunday of the Last Judgment, in which we heard Matthew 25, where we heard that sheep go to heaven and goats go to hell. Stephen: Weve talked about that theres kind of an anti-theosis that happens. The answer is that they had to invent a new religion. We appreciate hearing from you. Fr. Boom. Fr. Fr. Repeat after me. Genesis, 6:1-4. It has this sort of importance as a major battle site. Fr. 1 John 2:1 talks about Christ as the high priest who intercedes in prayer, and then 2:2 says that Christ is the atonement, not only for our sins but also for the whole world. About Fr. Andrew: Yeah, and most Semitic languages work this way, so if any of our listeners are Arabic-speakers, which I know some are, its again those three consonants make up pretty much every word in Arabic. Fr. Fr. Im Fr. But well get to that. Andrew: So this is not a sacrifice in the meal sense that weve been talking about. Fr. You guys are all asking the wrong questions! And then theres this weird And then at the end of Luke: They worshiped him, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the Temple, blessing and praising God. Fr. Andrew: Right! Stephen: And historically, especially with 1 John, its important to note that the general epistles, which is all those letters that St. Paul didnt write, the general or catholic epistles, the ones written by other people, out of all of those, in the very early history of the Church, were being utilized by some churches and not others. So you see, for example, the teaching of the works of Azazel. From moment to moment, day to day, we come to experience these realities ever more fully. Fr. It becomes this mechanism that I sort of get benefited that benefits me, rather than something that I ritually participate in. Did it eradicate it? There are also some folks who want to suggest that Azazel isnt a being. Many people dive into discussions about giants without defining the key term: Just what is a giant? That is not a false etymology, although usually etymologies that go like that are; theyre just nonsense. Fr. When Christ says hes sanctifying himself, its not as if he was unholy before and hes doing some action; that him sanctifying himself is talking about his incarnation, his earthly life, and his coming death, in which he has sanctified himself, his person, in order that his disciples in all ages would be sanctified, would be made holy. Fr. Andrew: [Laughter] Right, no, no, no, theres more. Were going to see, to tip our hatsspoilersthat in the New Testament, Christ is both goats. But also that theres a fundamental question that gets asked in the West, and it comes under the banner of atonement, despite the fact that theres not a whiff of it that weve seen in our survey tonight, and thats not just How does salvation work? but How does salvation work from Gods end? Its not a question of How does salvation work? in the sense of What must I do to be saved? which is a salutary questionpardon the punbut it is How does it work from Gods end? Andrew: Yeah, right, and it probably should be noted that that doesnt contradict what came before. Its just a practical thing. Almost from the beginning of the book, Fr. He then has broken Azazels hold over the world, and so now the whole cosmos, the whole creation can become sacred space, can be purified and can be sacred space. Stephen De Young, have been podcasting together recently and shared about these five-ish angelic falls. Stephen: Yeah, and St. Johns going to say this has happened. Fr. Strictly speaking, thats not Christianity; its Gnosticism. That makes perfect sense. Andrew: Yeah, they dont lead to salvation. Is it because its being offered to God? Fr. Fr. Stephen: No, it has nothing to do with that. Fr. Hes our staff philologist. Stephen: And we dont normally think about Cain a lot, but when we do we think about the story of Cain and Abel and, oh yeah, hes a murderer; hes a bad guy. Hes not sacrificed to anybody. So theres two goats, right? Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, people do that all the time, like they say theres three wise men. Okay, so, but there was something else also, a connection from John 17. Thats what he named himself, and he actually went into the Temple in Jerusalem and sacrificed pigs on the altar to Zeus. Stephen: In fact, its canonically forbidden to bring livestock into the church. Stephen: Who get what St. Matthew is doing here, and not only do they get what St. Matthew is doing here, but they talk about this in terms of atonement. Well, again, weve got you coveredand no, I will not get tired of that joke. But in terms of using the term and talking about it as a concept, 1 John is the place. He is also the author of The Whole Counsel Blog on . Fr. Stephen De Young is an Orthodox priest. Stephen: Yeah, you could pretty safely use the same list every year, because all of that had happened again. [Laughter] But theres literally a text variant there. The other problem with seeing atonement as a kind of system is that it actually disconnects it from the actual Christian life. Fr. Fr. Fr. Also considered is the possibility that the Biblical Nimrod, a descendant of Ham, was the Sumerian king Gilgamesh, and that he also was genetically Nephilim. The Centar za Racionalnu Teologiju/Center for Rational Theology has produced some information regarding Giants in the Bible including that Everybody knows about GoliathAnd the enigmatic Nephilim and that, additionally, there are quite a few more giants and giant races mentioned in the Bible. They also elucidate The name Nephilim etymologically. Stephen offers a firm, yet never harsh or condescending, corrective to any interpretation of the Old Testament that seeks either to allegorize or demythologize . If youre a pastor and youre hearing confessions and you hear people struggle with all the disciplines of the Church that are intended, for instance, to purify us, to help us participate in purification, then theres a lot of discouragement that can come from that, and I think a lot of that comes because of a kind of reduced vision of what this is about. Stephen De Young discusses verses 19 and 20 of Galatians, Chapter 3. AFP publications include: And when we were talking about this, you mentioned that, in terms of the actual construction of the language there, its a parallel construction, that Yahweh and Azazel are being used in parallel. Fr. Stephen: Yeah, but were not just playing the Nope card. 13-26. Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper Was Hams Wife of the Nephilim?, Partial review of Marco Romano and Marco Avanzinis The skeletons of Cyclops and Lestrigons by Ken Ammi, The Nephilim and Rephaim: Satans Seed from Creation and Emergence in the Great Tribulation, Exegetical Discord in Genesis 6.1-4 Hermeneutics: Etiology of Evil Obscured, Open Review of the Center for Rational Theologys Abarim Publications on Nephilim and Giants in the Bible, by Ken Ammi, Response to Richard Sorensens review of my paper Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper, Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic?, Angels in the Targums, An Examination of Angels, Demons, and Giants in the Pentateuch Targums, How Nephilim Absconded from the Tanakh and Invaded Folkloric Territory, A review of Adrienne Mayor's paper "Giants in Ancient Warfare" by Ken Ammi, When Gods Roamed the Earth: Thematic Parallels to Gen. 6:1-4 from the Ancient Near East, Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper, Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic?, The Council of the Titans: The Old Greek Gods Among the Amorites, "The Giant in a Thousand Years: Tracing Narratives of Gigantism in the Hebrew Bible and Beyond," in Goff, Stuckenbruck, and Morano (eds. When I received my copy of The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century by Fr. All right, thank you! Stephen: The goat who exists or the goat who creates Yeah. [Laughter]. Stephen: No, no, enjoy what you like. Remember, the blood of this goat is used to purify sacred space. That would have been a great quest line. Fr. Stephen: Doesnt everyone? These studies were recorded live and include questions from his audience. Fr. This is so cool. So St. Luke is doing this narratively, and Hebrews is just giving it to us theologically, explaining it to us. The ark of the covenant is like a footstool, so theres a throne involved there, and were thinking of atonement as at-one-ment and peace and mercy. So you come up with this mercy-seat thing. We might go a little further if we understand that the body is this nexus of powers or potentialities, to say, well, all of the human powers and all of the human capacities, but for St. Athanasiusand St. Irenaeus does something very similar before him by a couple of centurieshe means spatio-temporally, that Christ not only sanctifies humanity in its parts and in its powers, but the moments of a human lifebirth, childhood, young adulthood, adulthood, up to and including a human deathand that by living through those, not just, again, spatially, but temporally, those things are sanctified and purified by the union of Christs divinity and humanity in his Person. With the Day of Atonement ritual, theres two goats, a goat for Yahweh and a goat thats sent off to Azazel, but I thought in Matthew 25 it said that goats go to hell. The A-Team. Fr. Stephen: So where combinations have been made. That doesnt make it not historical. Fr. When it comes to the biblical context, there are at least four issues to consider: Some English versions translate two Hebrew words by using the one vague, generic, subjective, and, I submit to you, un-biblical term giants. Fr. We experience them in worship, we experience them in our interactions with other people when we show the love of God to them, we experience them in the peace we receive from God, in the actual forgiveness and healing we receive for our actual sins on a day-to-day basis. So I think thats hopefully the important take-away, beyond all the fun stuff and interesting Bible tidbits; that this isnt just about knowing the right interpretation, thinking the right thing, but its about experiencing the reality of Christ. The more I learned about scripture, the more I felt the need for additional guidance on both the holy messages and the contextsculture, history, languages, geography, etc. Stephen De Young, I felt I had finally come home. Stephens deep learning and years of study, not that the book is academic. So when Peter is called to go see Cornelius the centurion whos a Roman, whos a Gentile, whos from one of the pagan nations, he sees this vision of the animals, the formerly unclean animals, being lowered in this cloth. Now, this doesnt mean, like, he was Santa, keeping a list all year, like the high priest was going around spying on people and seeing all the stuff they did and writing it down. Fr. Fr. Andrew: All right. So the correct translation is not only for our sins, but for the whole world. The words, those of, do not occur. Stephen is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog. But the much simpler way to read it is it just means cover. Fr. I mean, St. Matthew is himself a Jewanti-Semitic?hes writing the most Jewish of the gospels, the most Hebraized of the gospels! Fr. You can download the paper by clicking the button above. And I looked this up: what is the earliest use of this word? And as we talked about last time, at a fair amount of length, Passover representing this manumission, this freedom from slavery, slavery to sin, freedom from slavery to the hostile powers. https://t.co/vM0ulUmY0s, More than Schooling: The Perils of Pragmatism in Christian Attitudes Toward the Liberal Arts by Robin Phillips https://t.co/wh5X6dP63s, A post shared by Robin Phillips (@robin__phillips), Nine Things I Wish Someone Had Told Me About Parenting Teenagers, Barbados Sea Turtles and the Desire For God, G.K. Chesterton and the Sacramental Imagination, Interview with Ancient Faith about Gratitude in Lifes Trenches, The AI Apocalypse is Happening Right Nowbut not in the way you think, Virtue and Classical Education: A Commencement Address to a Graduating Class, understand ancient texts through the lens of their original context. St. Paul the Mystic - The Whole Counsel Blog Thats where the feast comes from, the feast of lights. So not only for our sins, which are taken away, but for the whole world, which is now purified and made holy and sacred, first in potency, first, as with everything eschatological, this is happening in real time, like we talked about in our Halloween episode, but this will ultimately come to fruition, then, in the new heavens and the new earth, just as, right now the evil one is bound and in a hole, and hell be chucked in the lake of fire then at that latter point.
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